tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10280668.post114901104658265171..comments2023-09-22T06:05:17.495-05:00Comments on Brad Appleton's ACME Blog: Simple ain't Easy: Myths and Misunderstandings about SimplicityBrad Appletonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15136106921504315995noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10280668.post-47093281309340638662008-11-03T18:20:00.000-06:002008-11-03T18:20:00.000-06:00i have to echo the "great post" comments!a quote t...i have to echo the "great post" comments!<BR/><BR/>a quote that is stuck in my head from years back: tai chi is simple, but it's not easy. i don't at all mean to sound all hippy-dippy i just mean that the distinction between simple and easy appears in many ventures. so people might grok what it means for software by thinking of what it means in fields they already know (gardening, wood working, dancing, ...).Raoul Dukehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07354740962526930549noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10280668.post-1153167823302739802006-07-17T15:23:00.000-05:002006-07-17T15:23:00.000-05:00simplicity and complexity are perceived to be at o...simplicity and complexity are perceived to be at odds with each, which gives rise to the debate. when you harmonise them tho, you can avoid the distraction of debate and proceed with the progress at hand. <BR/>complexity arises out of deep simplicity and in the non-linear system that software is, simplicity is how we manage complexity- not hide it, not remove it, not fight, but in a sense, nurture it and keep it on the slightly frozen edge of chaos.<BR/>if you embrace simplicity, you have to accept that you do it to manage complexity becos as the system grows, it just <I>has</I> to get complex... <BR/>and if get the right simplicity for the right project, well, right, it's much easier from there on out...homegrownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18061519175144319647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10280668.post-1150106000405425162006-06-12T04:53:00.000-05:002006-06-12T04:53:00.000-05:00Brad, a very stimulating piece, thanks. I particul...Brad, a very stimulating piece, thanks. I particularly liked your observation that "Hiding complexity isn't the same as removing complexity". I've taken that as my lead to further the discussion a bit, and produce a few more soundbites, over at my blog.<BR/><BR/>http://niksilver.com/2006/06/12/a-field-guide-to-simplicity/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10280668.post-1149906506293955702006-06-09T21:28:00.000-05:002006-06-09T21:28:00.000-05:00One more:I would not give a fig for the simplicity...One more:<BR/><BR/>I would not give a fig for the simplicity this side of complexity, but I would give my life for the simplicity on the other side of complexity.<BR/>OLIVER WENDELL HOLMES (1809 – 1894)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10280668.post-1149168013880568982006-06-01T08:20:00.000-05:002006-06-01T08:20:00.000-05:00Responding to pjm2 ... I think the solution fittin...Responding to pjm2 ... I think the solution fitting the problem is simply a way of ensuring that the solution contains the essence of the problem, and no more.<BR/><BR/>So in that sense, it's less about the distance/fit between the two, and more about minimizing the number of objects and relationships in the design. When the solution doesnt fit the problem, it often had to create a lot more objects or relationships because it missed something "essential" in the problem.<BR/><BR/>But sometimes the solution can be made simpler by adding an object that may not have been in the problem. The mediator design pattern is a good example of this. Inserting the mediator object takes a network of N objects and N*(N-1)/2 relationships and turns it into a network of N+1 objects and N relationships.<BR/><BR/>So in the context of system design, I guess Im saying "simple" is all about <B>interaction</B>. The fewer object interactions there are to manage, the smaller the impact of change and the more localized the change can be.<BR/><BR/>If I consider relationships/dependencies to be just another form of "entity" (just like objects), then I guess my definition boils down to something similar to Frank's definition above (which looks an awful lot like Occam's Razor): It's minimizing the number of entities and unknowns (where "interaction relationships" are a kind of entity). My claim is that interaction relationships tend to dominate the resulting complexity of a system much more quickly then the number of objects.<BR/><BR/><I>Emergence</I> in complex adaptive systems arise from rich interaction, but they are dense and local (which is another way of saying loose coupling and high cohesion). This is the meaning (or context) of the quote from Dee Hock that I included in the blog-entry.Brad Appletonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15136106921504315995noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10280668.post-1149141887719771452006-06-01T01:04:00.000-05:002006-06-01T01:04:00.000-05:00Brad, this is fantastic.I think from the system pe...Brad, this is fantastic.<BR/><BR/>I think from the system perspective, simplicity has two ways of looking at it, objective and subjective. The structure of the system may be inherently complex because the builder(s) of the system did not think through the underlying simple patterns. On the other hand, a simple system may appear complex to somebody who has limited knowledge or exposure to the system. Like beauty, simplicity is in the eyes of the beholder.<BR/><BR/>In my opinion, system is really a combination of process and the structure which implements the process. I have recently posted my thoughts on this at http://prkarve.wordpress.com<BR/><BR/>I am looking forward to some generic rules about how to build a simple structure for a given process.<BR/><BR/>Prabhakar KarvePrabhakar Karvehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08668831449060636017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10280668.post-1149109442583278562006-05-31T16:04:00.000-05:002006-05-31T16:04:00.000-05:00I'll echo the first commenter's appreciation of yo...I'll echo the first commenter's appreciation of your post and collected references/quotes... nice job!<BR/><BR/>My interpretation of what I think you're getting at is this: 'simplicity is when the solution fits the problem'... solutions that are less complicated than the problem they intend to solve are bad; so are solutions that are more complicated than the problem they solve. Simplicity is achieved when the distance between the solution and the problem is minimized.<BR/><BR/>How's that?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10280668.post-1149056485062344422006-05-31T01:21:00.000-05:002006-05-31T01:21:00.000-05:00Excellent blogpost!For me simple means "easy to un...Excellent blogpost!<BR/><BR/>For me <I>simple</I> means "easy to understand", where <I>easy</I> means "requiring a minimum amount of knowledge, information or skills".<BR/><BR/>Playing a piano is simple. Anyone can do it and it requires minimum of explanation: just press the keys.<BR/>But making music with a piano is not simple. For a concert pianist is may seem simple to play an easy piece, but he has an enormous amount of background (knowledge and skills).<BR/><BR/>You are right that "simple" depends on your perspective. Starting a car is simply a matter of turning the key or pressing a button (user perspective), but a lot of very complicated things happen (technician's perspective).<BR/><BR/>I really enjoy reading your blogs (and other writings). Thank you!<BR/><BR/>Frank.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05338420995938912564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10280668.post-1149029062619677752006-05-30T17:44:00.000-05:002006-05-30T17:44:00.000-05:00The real meaning of KISS?OK, Brad, I'll jump in......<B>The <I>real</I> meaning of KISS?</B><BR/><BR/>OK, Brad, I'll jump in... <I>but first, let me say this: Marvelous post! Great collection of references and quotes! And your outlined distillation is fascinatingly thought-provoking! Bravo!!!</I> <BR/><BR/>Now, for the real meaning of KISS (paraphrasing your first Einstein quote)...<BR/><BR/><B>"Keep It Simple & Sufficient"</B> <BR/><BR/>I never did like the "stupid" slogan. So, for some years now, I've offered my alternative paraphrase befitting Einstein, suitably arranged to spell out the "KISS" acrostic or acronym. <BR/><BR/>I hope you like it. Feel free to pass it on.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com